H: Lis Speight, host
Y: Yvette Cooper, MP Chief Secretary to the Treasury
J: Janet Fyle, Royal College of Midwives
JA: Jane Ashton, Expecting first child
H: Hello and welcome to the Parenting Show, I'm Lis Speight. Now if you're expecting a child, you will know how difficult the 9 months leading up to the birth can be. Morning sickness, doctor's appointments, buying everything you need, and all the while looking after yourself properly. It can be stressful, time consuming and a bit costly. But now more help is available. From today the government is introducing the new Health in Pregnancy Grant worth £190 for expectant mums. Pretty good hey? Well how does it work? Well I'm delighted to say that joining me to dicsuss it is the chief secretary to the Treasury, Yvette Cooper, herself a mother of three – how does she do it? Welcome along lovely to see you today
Y: Good afternoon
H: And also Janet Fyle, who is a Professional Policy Advisor at the Royal College of Midwives. Welcome, lovely to see you as well
J: Thank you
H: And let's not forget our third guest, Jane Ashton, no prizes for guessing why you're here – although you aren't really showing that much – you're our pregnant lady aren't you?
JA: I am, yes. I'm sure it'll come
H: And it's your first child – when is it due?
JA: It's due on the 30th July
H: Oh lovely, and you're feeling ok?
JA: Yes so far
H: So far so good. We'll be talking to Jane a little bit about her pregnancy, but let's talk a little bit about the grant first of all. We've got a lovely lady here whose going to tell us all about it – Yvette, tell us a little bit about how it works?
Y: Well it's basically because we think pregnancy is so important for a child's life that you want to give mums-to-be more support. We know that pregnancy can be an expensive time, you know you're thinking about all the things you've got to buy, you might be worrying about whether you're going to take maternity leave, all of those sorts of things. What you don't want is to have pregnant mums ending up cutting back, scrimping and saving and cutting back on things for themselves just at a time when actually they need to be eating well, need to be thinking about you know themselves and their own health, because that's what will make a difference for the babies. So that's why this is £190 grant -
H: That's worth having isn't it? That's quite a lot of money really
Y: Exactly. It does make a difference and you get it after the 25th week of pregnancy and you get it through talking to your midwife or to your doctor who will help fill in the form so that you can get the money.
H: And so what actually inspired it? You sort of talked a little bit about wanting pregnant mums to be healthy and fit, but it's a new thing – it's sort of come out of the blue really. What actually inspired it?
Y: Well we were thinking about child benefit which we give to all families to help support children as they're growing, and then actually thinking about the fact that we should do more to support children even before they're born
H: Right
Y: Makes such a difference to their health, to their lives, how well the pregnancy goes, that well why not – we start paying child benefit at birth, why not take it backwards? Why not think about what support that you need during pregnancy, partly as a way of saying just how valuable it is, how important that time is in a child's future life – how can you support people in pregnancy as well?
H: So we'll be talking a little bit more about sort of how you claim it and any sort of loopholes and what have you, but Janet, as a midwife, what are you hoping that mums will spend this money on?
J: I'm hoping that they'll spend it on themselves, because it's very good that we've got this money for mothers because most of the time when mothers tend to focus on their children, rather than themselves, and this money is saying to them we value you, we support you in what you're doing and also the little treats that they want to keep themselves healthy. And the cost of having a baby in this country is quite expensive, so we'll try and ensure that mothers get the money and that they can spend it on themselves. It's that going backwards into pregnancy and saying that we recognise what happens to a child before it's born, has a significant bearing in how that child is, how that child grows up
H: Yes. So Jane, you're our guinea pig! So you're going to be getting your grant presumably, how are you planning to spend it?
JA: I think in two ways. I think I'm planning to spend it on a few baby essentials so I can tick off all the items on my hospital list
H: Yes
JA: and also on a few treats for myself as well, maybe a couple of pampering treats. Healthy fruit and vegetables
H: Yes so diet-wise have you changed your diet at all since you've been pregnant?
JA: Yes I have, I've tried very hard to eat lots more fruit and vegetables, and I've cut out all alcohol. That's probably why I've lost some weight as well
H: Well that's why you're looking so good. And how have you sort of been feeling? Have you had any funny cravings or anything like that?
JA: No I haven't had any cravings yet. I was – I felt very sick for the first 14 weeks, but that's gone now and I'm fine. But no cravings as yet, so I haven't been tempted to the chocolate bars in the cupboard or anything like that
H: No but diet is very important isn't it Janet?
J: It is very important in pregnancy. I know many women say oh they're eating for two, but you don't necessarily have to eat for two, you can eat for two but eat the right things. And I had a midwife colleague was talking to women this morning and she said about the fact that you only need, which is true, you only need an extra 200 calories when you're pregnant
H: Is that all? That's not very much actually is it?
J: Yes just that little bit extra. But also I would think that one has to look at protein. If you're a vegetarian then you can have the pulses, etc, vegetables, fruits and just staying healthy during the pregnancy is so important. All the time the baby's growing, from first few weeks right up to when the baby's born, you do need excellent nutrition
H: So you've got to keep yourself healthy -
J: Absolutely
H: Because you're going to have a lot to deal with when little one comes along aren't you?
J: Yes. And the woman has to recover as well after having the baby, so the nutritional intake during pregnancy has a significant impact later on, on the woman and the baby
H: Really, that's interesting isn't it, because I mean they're basically like little leaches aren't they, these little things, they just drain you don't they and – well they take what they want don't they? Poor mother – they say you lose a tooth for every child, but they do, they take calcium from you and iron and you've really got to – leach, that's not a very nice thing to say is it? It never stops does it? But moving on a little bit to keeping healthy and exercise as well, Jane are you trying to do a little bit of exercise?
JA: Yes I mean I used to walk 4 miles a day and do karate -
H: Goodness me!
JA: I've actually given up the karate but I've tried to walk a little bit more to compensate for that
H: Yes
JA: So I've got a very energetic dog who requires 3 walks a day of half an hour so that's keeping me fit
H: And that's sort of gentle exercise which is maybe what you're looking for is it Janet when you're -
J: Well it's not about what we're looking for as midwives, it's the fact that those mothers who tell us that they've been swimming or walking like Jane does, tend to have easier labours. Tend to be able to cope better with the contractions and tend to be in physically good shape when they go into labour, so exercise is very important and I don't think if women are going to gyms so their local gyms, they just need to talk to the people there to say I'm pregnant and can somebody guide me or give me a program of exercise to do, but I don't see any exercise that women who are pregnant cannot do
H: Cannot do. As long as you don't sort of overdo it
J: Yes
H: If you've been doing it before you should be able -
J: When I go to my gym I see the pregnant women put me to shame!
H: Well that's a good incentive, if you might get an easier labour if you do some exercise.
J: It is
JA: Very good incentive
H: Well let's move on to talk a little bit more about the grant. We've had some questions in already actually and Emma has sent one in, she says "where do you get the form from?" Do you know that Yvette?
Y: It's actually it will be probably through your midwive
H: Right
Y: I think at the normal 24th or 28th week visit
J: You can ask your midwife for the form at 24 or 25 weeks but they cannot send the form in before the 25th week, so they get it from the antenatal clinic or the children's centre or their GPs' practice, you could get the forms from there. And the most important thing is that the midwife signs the form for the woman
H: Right
Y: One of the things we wanted to do was to link it very closely with getting good healthcare, good advice from the midwife to make sure that you're actually getting the care that you need, nutritional advice that you need. So rather than it simply being delivered automatically through the tax man, you actually link it to the NHS and the proper -
H: Yes so you want to sign up with your midwife
Y: Exactly
H: And make sure that you're in the system, that you're seeing the midwives at the right time and what have you. It's very important that isn't it because to keep a check on your blood pressure and what have you. And who actually qualifies for it, is it everybody can have it? Is it sort of anyone who can't have it?
Y: Well we thought it was right to do it for all pregnant mums, because it's really like the same idea and same principal as child benefit
H: Right
Y: So there is extra help and there is extra support available for those mums who are on the very lowest income and might be able to get maybe the Surestart maternity grant or maybe get some extra help like that. But this was really to say well in the same way that we pay child benefit, for all families to support all children, actually we should pay this to all mums-to-be to support all children, all babies you know before they're very – even start their lives
H: Yes so I think we've answered this question actually but I think I'll ask it anyway – Sarah says "is this grant means tested?" It sounds as though it isn't
Y: No and that's the same thing, you know child benefit isn't means tested, it's one of those things that we give on a universal basis, and interestingly by having a universal one it actually means that those on lowest income are also more likely to actually get it
H: Yes
Y: You know the take-up is very high for the universal benefits as well, so it actually helps those who are on the lowest income, as well as helping everybody
H: Ok. And we have another q;uetsion in on this similar subject actually from Ella, and she says "how long will it take from the time I apply for the grant to get the money, and how is it paid? Is it paid in vouchers or direct into my bank account?"
Y: Ideally it will be paid into somebody's bank account, but they can choose, you know where they want it paid. If somebody doesn't have a bank account, they can arrange for it to be sent by cheque that they can maybe cash at a post office or something like that
H: Right
Y: And obviously we want to get the money to people as speedily as possible, but bear in mind this is a new grant that's being set up
H: Yes
Y: So it's obviously a new system that will be just getting into place
H: Yes
J: I mean they get the money within two weeks of them receiving a letter to say they're eligible, they will get the money into their bank account
H: Ok. And Jane have you found sort of being pregnant, or preparing for a baby quite costly really? And I remember – well before you answer that, one of my friends said "babies, they don't cost much, they're only little" – well flippin' 'eck you have a lot of stuff for them don't you?
JA: You do yes
H: But what have you done so far? What have you bought so far?
JA: Yes I'm already finding that. I think yesterday was a prime example, I decided I'm going to decorate my nursery this week
H: Lovely
JA: Because my mum's coming down to help me
H: Ah
JA: So I was clearing all the stuff out and I didn't realise quite how much I'd bought and how much I'd spent, but I've already got a pram and a car seat and a few nappies and things like that so I'm trying to get things gradually because as you say it is very expensive, so I'm trying to sort of build up gradually before I have the baby to get bits and pieces
Y: Because then you think about you know whether it's the buggy, the cot – then you're thinking about nappies and clothes and all of those sorts of things, plus often actually it's the time when people are thinking about well will they go back to work after? What are their financial circumstances going to be in the future? How long will they take for maternity leave? So often people are thinking about you know the financial circumstances for the whole family in a different way, and maybe worrying and the whole point of this is to be able to try and ease some of those worries that some families otherwise will face, you know just at a time when you need people to be looking after themselves
J: Absolutely. Somebody looked on a well-known bank's website yesterday, over the weekend and said it costs around £1600 to actually be pregnant and give birth, the things that you need to by for the baby – that's a rough estimate, £1600
H: Goodness me
J: So £190 is a huge amount of money. I mean speaking personally from on behalf of midwives and from my perspective as a parent as well, I wish i had had the £190 – it's a huge sum of money and I don't think we realise how important it is that our government is saying we know that it is expensive to have a baby, so here is something towards it. It can never get, you know sort of cover all the expenses, but it's excellent – whether you're working, whether you're not working, whether you're rich, whether you're poor, you do get the £190
H: Yes and why is it £190 – it seems a bit of a random figure! How do you sort of come up with that?
Y: Well because we actually started talking about child benefit we were really thinking well what if you started to pay child benefit two or three months early. So that was how we came to that sort of figure, it was that kind of thinking, you know, but then we thought we should pay it in a lump sum because actually some of the things that you're having to buy during pregnancy and so on tend to be, you know one-off sudden expenditure and that might be what you're worried about
H: Yes
Y: So that was really why we got to that kind of figure
H: Yes. And if you have ten children do you get 10 lots of £190? I mean is it for every child you have -
Y: Each time yes. But I mean obviously – because it's the same when you get child benefit, for each child, so it's the same sort of principal for each pregnancy
H: Each pregnancy -
Y: Exactly
H: So if you had sort of Quinn's or something you wouldn't get – or octuplets
Y: No because the idea is it's for the mum
H: Right of course yes
Y: So it's for the mum during the pregnancy
H: Right ok. Does the money actually come direct to the mother? Because there are sometimes scrupulous dads out there who might go and spend it down the pub, so how do you sort of make sure that the mum gets it?
Y: Well obviously it – because it will be filled in with the midwife it will be very much about, you know how you get the money to the mum
H: Yes
Y: And how you can make sure you're supporting her
J: We've been actually very – we worked with, during the development of the whole process we worked with HM Revenue and Customs, and what we wanted to ensure was that the mother gets the money
H: Yes
J: Because the mother knows what she needs during the pregnancy. I'm not saying dad doesn't know, but we wanted to ensure that the mother gets the money, and as you say in some circumstances the mothers don't get the money, so the process ensures that the mother gets the money
H: Yes. And when should you start thinking about applying for this grant then? I mean presumably when you first sort of wee on that stick and you're pregnant, you can't get it then because things might go a little bit wrong, so how far through have you got to be before you can actually apply for it?
J: 25 weeks. 25 weeks
H: 25 weeks, ok. So you'll go to your midwife at about 6 /7 weeks don't you to start off with and they say oh go away and come back again, even though you're really excited
J: I think they should talk to women about the grant then, because then it enables the woman to remember that they have to claim the grant, because they have to ask for the form. And also we're encouraging midwives to talk to women at 24 and 25 weeks and actually hand over the form and talk about staying healthy during pregnancy, eating healthily, and then sign the forms for them
H: Yes. And when's the latest you can apply? Say you sort of slipped through the net or you've just come back from being abroad or something – what's the latest?
J: I think while they're pregnant, if I'm right
Y: I think that's right
J: While they're pregnant they can apply, but they can't get it after they've had the baby
H: Right ok
Y: If people do have further questions and things like that, the best website to try is if you just go to the direct.gov.uk website and then you can – that will direct you to any further questions as well
H: Ok. There's quite a lot of information on there actually isn't there about -
J: Lots of information and lots of answers to these questions that mothers have, on the direct.gov website
H: Ok. And do you think Janet that people these days – expectant mums these days – are quite savvy about being healthy and eating healthily and being sort of more exercise-led than maybe our mums were? I'd like to think so. You're smiling a quiet smile!
Y: I had cravings for marmite, marmite on toast I ate a lot of
H: But that's what you need, the B vitamins you see – your body knows
J: I think if you look on television, listen to the radio, go in the supermarkets, everywhere there's information about healthy eating, generally for us as a population. And also when mothers are pregnant and the midwives engage with them, we're hoping that midwives talk to women about eating healthily and about not eating so much for two
H: Yes
J: But you can't help women having cravings when they're pregnant, and I think giving dietary advice or advice on eating is not just a one-off thing, it's a continuous thing throughout the pregnancy -
H: Yes
J: Throughout the pregnancy. Just as some women might not eat as well as we would want them to, just ask at every visit, or ask the mothers, or mothers should ask their midwives, what do you think, this is my diet, run through what they eat in the morning, run through what they eat at lunchtime, some mothers forget lunch, particularly if they have other children
H: That's right yes
J: But just run through what they eat and give sensible simple advice that the woman can sort of – some women can't cook, but if we give sensible advice that the woman can buy the correct foods and that they're able to cook it, then that's much better for the woman, rather than getting things all complicated. But the most important thing is to talk to women every time about what they eat
H: Yes ok
J: And women can ask, if midwives don't volunteer the information
H: Ok. Now we're nearly out of time actually but before we go a little bit from Jane about expecting first baby – what are you sort of hoping – what are your hopes and fears really?
JA: I think it's a bit of a scary time, because I don't really know what to expect, what with it being my first. But just hope it's really healthy. I know I'm having a little boy
H: Oh well that's nice, lovely
Y: Have you got a name?
JA: Yes
H: Don't make her tell
Y: We all want to know what it is
JA: Oliver Gordon
H: Oh lovely
J: Very nice
H: Any advice from you Yvette? You've got there, you've been there!
Y: Yes well I was given some really good advice before my first baby was born, that I did follow and it was that – it was to – as a new mum not to change a nappy for the first month, on the basis that it should be the dad or other relatives
H: Quite right
Y: Who should be doing that because you had quite enough to do, especially if you're breast-feeding or you know you're getting up in the night, quite often enough and -
J: Good advice
Y: Just get someone else to share a bit of the -
H: Start as you mean to go on
Y: Otherwise you find you end up doing everything and you end up also being completely exhausted, and that was great advice and I did stick to it, in fact each of the three times, and it made a huge difference
H: And she's still smiling and she's got three children. So there we are. One final word from Yvette – what are you hoping this grant's going to achieve then? For pregnant women and families in the UK?
Y: Well I hope it will be a real boost in pregnancy because I think you know so much of a child's future starts before they're born, and although we, you know we've invested a lot in improving children's life chances and supporting families and new services for children, you know we shouldn't forget pregnancy, where it all starts – it matters so much and you know we think we should value women while they're pregnant and provide them with that extra help so that they can stay healthy and so they can look after themselves and their newborn and you know to wish them all a good future with it
H: Lovely ok, well thanks very much, that's all we have time for today, I'm sorry about that but that's all we've got time for, so my thanks to Yvette Cooper, Janet Fyle and Jane Ashton for joining us, it's been really lovely to see you today
J: Thank you
H: And best of luck Jane
JA: Thank you
H: And if you want any more information on the new health in pregnancy grant you can go to the website which is – wait for it – www.direct.gov.uk/moneyformums2be. Good luck with that one! And if you're expecting your own little bundle of joy you'll be getting a little bundle of money as well, so that can't be bad can it? Well thanks very much for watching the Parenting Show and we'll see you next time – bye bye
